I expect we’ll be seeing more of this:
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
-Ephesians 4:29-32 (ESV)
…Even secular psychologists practise what they call “Cognitive therapy” or the idea of telling yourself the truth. Cognitive therapy seeks to replace negative thoughts with positive thoughts. For instance, instead of a person thinking they are “stupid” they should tell themselves they are “smart.” It seeks to replace negative, error thinking with positive truths. …
In reality, what cognitive therapy and the positive confession movements have hit on is the truth that we need to correct our thinking and negative speech with more positive truths. This is biblical.
And a fundie will lead them. Therapists, hello, do you understand the appeal, here? Hint: When the religiously insane endorse no other psychotherapy but CBT you might hit the social theory a little harder before proceeding to shove it down my secular throat, and ask how you became a tool of the encroaching American theocracy. I repeat, this is biblical.
And this is a chip off the ole Rockpile:
Writhe Safely 
Off-topic, but I tagged you with “Blogs That Give Me Hope”. If you want to, but no obligation on your part, you could tag 5 other blogs that give you hope.
You know, I think CBT is the one thing for which I have not forgiven Jesus.
OMG. Hail flawedplan, full of grace and blessed be the blog surfer who does not read posts by the religiously insane, for she may live long without the aid of tranquilizers.
You are on target with this post. CBT is a fundamentalist therapy — it is premised on the notion that there is a singular meaning to thoughts and words, reducing inner life to a simplistic, linear organization that more suitably characterizes machines as opposed to people. The CB therapist doesn’t see conflict, ambivalence, complexity, symbolism, creativity and multiplicity of meanings. CBT has always struck me as a form of tyranny that would ring hollow to anyone with a speck of emotional depth or an ounce of empathic capacity.
A few months ago, I wrote a posts on psychotherapists as fundamentalists. I believe this problem extends beyond CBT therapists. Any therapist can be a fundamentalist, but CB Therapists seem to have written the fundamentalist therapist’s handbook.
Anybody read these? I am now, not done yet. Let me know what you think.
The Cycle of Devolution: A Psychological Inquiry into the Relationship Between Personal Trauma & Social Oppression
Brad J. Kammer
——–
Trauma & Civilization:
The Relationship Between Personal Trauma, Social Oppression,
and the Transformative Nature of Trauma Healing
(A Biopsychosocial Approach)
Brad J Kammer
http://www.avoiceforfreedom.com/devolution.html
http://www.avoiceforfreedom.com/Final1.html
By the way, CBT is surface fundamentalist, but people don’t know it. Your doctor who recommends it doesn’t know it, probably neither does the therapist practicing it. They just go along with whatever is handed to them, thinking they are helping. So, I don’t see it as being a true analogy, that is, one with the depth of components. It will be just as easy to break the faith as to instill it. They are simply looking to help, they are not believers that they have found the only way.
Hi TMA, thanks for the tag Hymes, I’m heading over to Dr. X’s to find that post, and then check those links Grizz. There, is that everyone?
You know a part of me wants to cut CBT treaters the slack Grizz, but on the other hand… it seems clear that this form of treatment appeals to authoritarians because those of us who are not authoritarians take a visceral dislike to it. And maybe worse, some therapists start out with the proper disdain for doing this to people, then warm up to CBT for careerist motivations, and because they haven’t resolved their hangups with authority, and of course because it’s so much easier to learn than the deeper psychodynamic school.
I first learned about CBT in the late 80s by a psych professor in college. I went ripshit the day she introduced it to the class. Afterwards she had a long talk with me about how she used to hate CBT too (“I understand, I totally relate”) but became a believer because this is the zeitgiest, it has an evidence base, Freud is dead, there’s no turning back, etc etc, if you want to be a psychotherapist you need to get with the program, bray like sheep. Gah.
Anyway, yeah I hope you’re right, that most are not aware of the darker implications of doing CBT, and are open to the ever-expanding critique of it. We need more scholars, and more consumers who understand the perfidy. It will come.
I see your point, but they seem to be lead on….brought out by their past…yeah.
Well, we make an atmosphere where compassionate people gravitate to the field. We can do that, I’m working on it. Will. Continue. Shall.
I’m just going by the two or three I’ve had contact with – dolts in a parade.
( I’m just a nut in a parade myself, nuts and dolts – I’m glad I’m a nut)
Hey, I ran back in from mowing the lawn. We not only bring new people into it, ones open to Humanistic forms (no matter what they are taught), and try to form a movement or join one, we change the professionals already there. I’m doing that, wrote a lot to the one I had – she said she learned a lot, that I should be teaching the class or asking the prof questions that he couldn’t answer – and I hadn’t read a thing – just was going by what I thought was right, made sense. Now, I’m going to write to my doc with articles included, try to open him up, and I will write to that therapist again. Yeah, and I just signed up to go back to a therapist I had who is more open than I realized ( plus he costs very little) and I’m going to educate myself and press him on how things should be done. Use him, I’m in charge. Change him more. It can be done. People can change, I’ve found that for some crazy reason people say you can’t change people. People change all the time, if they grow. We all should grow. Grass roots, work on who is there, get it to spread. Plus talk to people. I’ll do it, have done it, am doing it.
Just the Live Earth thing – start it right in your back yard.
Well, I’m mowing my back yard, so back to the yard I go.
Please, don’t take affront to my leaving. Or to my puns. Well, those you can. That makes sense.
I think my therapist may be trying to practice cognitive therapy on me…and I am failing badly at it. She has been telling me how illogical I am and, consequently, I’ve been absolutely devastated my seeming inability to be logical. Not a happy week. But it got me wondering who decides what is logical and what isn’t. Considering my life, the things I think and say seem pretty logical to me, within that context. Why am I being held to such a high standard when all the things that happened that made me crazy in the first place certainly weren’t logical. PTSD isn’t logical. Flashbacks aren’t logical. Triggers aren’t either. I am startled by and terrified of the stupidest things. Being crazy isn’t terribly logical. It’s the opposite. Does anyone really argue themselves sane?
A wrote a comment or two on that trauma and civilisation stuff. See my blaag.
oh, better see this blog: http://unsanesafe.blogspot.com
Well, I haven’t finished it yet, last night I intended to but I couldn’t. I don’t think it was saying do for yourself, just the opposite. That caring and sharing is indeed in us, that we have to cultivate it more, and if we don’t, we get trauma. It appeared to me the paper was more for harmony than for elitism. Now, I don’t like the word instinct too much either, but just take it out, see it as talking about trauma and our social systems and the subversion of respect for community, from childhood on. See it as a trap. Sad to see.
Cate, I’ll bet what you feel is logical, as you say, within the context. Don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. That’s what happens, your reactions, and you’ve reacted the right way. It’s not fun, but it sure isn’t wrong. All I can say is you’re not alone, so we hang in there together. We beat it somehow, by collective will or sumthin.’ Hey, knowing others know has helped me. So thanks for your help, and when something hits you, a little piece of me is with you, right there with you; guaranteed.
Let me throw this in from the one paper, remember, I am not done with reading it yet. Kind of a bad night last night, just a give up, try to sleep night.
————–
“As a society, we could take much of the time and money we spend and invest it in ways which would allow us more time to spend with our children, with our families, with our friends, and in our communities. The significance of such preventative measures is typically acknowledged only in retrospect. So our society continues to compulsively search human nature in order to diagnose our problems, while seeking external sources — religious, scientific or ideological — in order to solve them all.”
Would that those pushing CBT had a philosophical basis for the whole thing, but they don’t. It has gained popularity because it is, or so it is believed, easy to do outcome research on CBT and outcome has become the gold standard for assessing efficacy. Never mind that almost all of the research in the field is now directly or indirectly underwritten by pharmaceutical companies and is for the benefit of them and insurance companies.
CBT helps some people but it is certainly not a one-size-fits-all panacea.
Hey Grizz, thanks for that. I’m all confused and mixed up, totally, about logic: what is and isn’t logical, what’s distorted thinking and what is actually readily apparent when you follow all the dots. Just because you’re troubled by the picture that’s taking shape, do you stop connecting all the numbers. Three follows two follows one no matter where you’re standing pretty much. Is it ever ok to say look, this is not a picture of marigolds and daffodils no matter how hard I squint, even if I turn the page upside down and stand on my head.
I find myself really struggling with the whole “replace negative, error thinking with positive truths” bit.
How is it a FACT that the positive is the ‘truth’ and all negative thoughts are errors? Whose truth exactly is being used here?
See, I really have tried that pulling up by the bootstraps, all clouds have silver linings stuff and it just doesn’t work. Makes me wonder if I’m just stupid. I keep hearing how CBT works, CBT works but then I find myself asking really, how is ‘works’ being measured, who decides if it has or hasn’t ‘worked,’ how long does it ‘work’ for. But maybe that’s only my distorted thinking.
You’re not stupid, you’re bright. Seeing negative as a negative is the way to go. THAT’S positive – seeing the truth. Furthermore, you’ve got more strength then they’ll ever know.
Trust in it. Fight things, fight for things, just because someone’s kickin’ you in the head don’t say thank you to them, or even thank you fate, I needed a new look, one with welts.
Remember that, you’ve got the strength to see what’s true – tell that therapist that. If they don’t like it, tell ‘em to take a nosedive off the nearest pier.
The existential therapist I’ve got (who I’ve got to stop seeing ‘cause I can’t afford him) when I told him of such tricks ( things like you describe) played on me by a CB therapist, said “what good is THAT? They want to replace your world view with what? THEIRS, right? That’s authoritarian.”
Remember that…and he’s got over thirty years experience too…
Tell ‘em you’re not the only one that feels that way about such suggestions, tell them you’re not alone, tell ‘em it’s harmful to you to hear such things, tell ‘em it stinks, tell ‘em to knock it off. Tell ‘em you don’t need to be challenged, you see things perfectly clear.
By god, that’s a shameful way to do business, that buttercups and baskets of flowers routine.
I’d give ya’ a damned hug if I could…
see ya’, got to go…
I think a lot of those posts you wrote.
bye.
At the risk of over posting here, here I go again. I’ve finished reading the first paper of the links I put up, and I’ve just been made aware that a couple of old things I wrote are still on the internet. The paper I just read sorta reminds me of these, so, well, here are links to the things I wrote.
I don’t think Robin ever saw these, maybe though…
Shoot, the long one is the first essay I ever wrote ( since I never went to school…)
I’ll go hide in a corner now…
http://web.archive.org/web/20030402142318/discussions.bobdylan.com/thread.jsp?forum=46&thread=24424
http://web.archive.org/web/20030606111401/discussions.bobdylan.com/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=11781
Yeah, this thread-drift is odd for blogs, it breaks a cardinal rule, but thread-drift has happened here from the start, and I’m okay with it, because of the healing, which also breaks a cardinal rule.
You: “lazarillo, you want to take a boulder and put it in a pea pod.” Yes, thats the strange and funny thread I’m on, you are at your best when arguing aesthetics with Marxists. Didn’t even know that Dylan board existed, and it’s good to see 300 comment threads, enjoy the lovely talkers. This is quite a find, thanks for passing it on.
One more: I just finished the Love and Theft review, and have to tell you it sings. I know that album like the back of my hand, and know it better now, really opened it up there Grizz, gave the work its due.
Thanks Robin, means a lot that you liked it. I’m not up to saying much right now, but that was the official Dylan site and it was really something, so much activity.
The man who ran the place, the one hired by Sony, after seeing some things I wrote asked me to write that. He said if it was good enough he would publish it on the “etc. ” page, alongside Sean Wilentz, no less!
It didn’t happen, although people liked it very much. At least I was asked. As I’ve said, that’s the first essay I wrote in my life – would have been something if I’d jumped to the top rubbing elbows with a Princeton professor! Right, no chance really…
oh well.
Days ain’t easy.
———————–
Company’s Comin’
I was traumatized when I was young
I was traumatized when I was middle aged.
Can’t say how the night will fall
Or the day will go down
Or even how the day might break.
Or how some react
Or understand.
I’ve got a beer, one beer. Almost done.
Scrabbled some eggs.
And company’s comin’
In a few days.
People to stay.
I like company, people that care.
I like to care too.
any one into the 3rd wave-ACT-?
Iam the odd one out-CBT was ok for me but it was only when I did DBT that I started feeling more in control-
Iam jumping into ACT–testing the waters-
Yes I do have a need too feel in control-LOL
Robin-have you checked out hays-what do you think-
A C T
D B T
Iam trying to make up logos-aka-you have your great CBT is shit for brains
OR if your Scottish you coudld say
CBT is shite for bains—<
I guess you missed it last year Poodle, when I went on a big ACT kick over at the message board when the Salon story came out. I was disgusted that no one took it seriously but me. And I do, Acceptance and Commitment Therapy is a big improvement on CBT/DBT, but it is still behaviorism, and I come from a different school, so it’s not for me personally. But here are my threads on ACT, let me know what you think:
http://p214.ezboard.com/fourcommoncondition97317frm19.showMessage?topicID=1113.topic
http://p214.ezboard.com/fourcommoncondition97317frm19.showMessage?topicID=1115.topic
http://p214.ezboard.com/fourcommoncondition97317frm19.showMessage?topicID=1107.topic